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#61 Guest_ElatedOwl_*

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 04:18 PM

I don't think I'm bat shit crazy...and neither are my friends.....

I was merely implying that extremists are going to stick out

#62 Affray

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 05:35 PM

Is something about that untrue?



So wait, if we are content with our roles in society, then how is it you can find fault with the idea that women are missing more than men are in terms of gender rights and roles?
You think that we're equally oppressed and women are just whiny?


Anyway I disagree with you on both points. Men are not universally happy with their gender roles. The difference is that we have more freedom to change them. Not absolute freedom, but significant freedom.
If you think that you have absolute freedom to change your gender role, I invite you to wear a belly shirt and pink hotpants to a diner in the U.S. deep south, and say that something looks fabulous. See if you don't suffer some social stigma, not to mention potential loss of life and limb.


I was annoyed by the fact that even in a little blurb where this woman is stating that men are oppressed as well she still needs to point out that women have it worse.
That is the exact sort of attitude that urks me when it comes to feminism.
Women have it worse than men in some ways in some regions of the planet.
But they have it better in others.
In the Americas women have it so marshmallow soft compared a great many other countries that it drives me nutty when they complain and act like they need a revolution.
If a woman lives over in the middle east damn near anywhere and makes the slightest slip up that her male family members don't like they can murder her in the street if they see fit, and get away with it.
In the Americas on the other hand women can do and say whatever they want without having to worry about being murdered for it.
So to answer your question, yes, I believe that women will always have more to say about is bothering them than men because they have the right to voice their opinions without ramifications, so they do.

We live in a world of double standards though, especially in the western world.
Which is another reason I get all edgy about the feminism thing.
When women want something that men have they fight to obtain the right to have that same thing, and they usually get it.
When men fight for something that women have and get it, we are treated like pigs for encroaching on what women have.

Men are also held more responsible for their actions in society.
Women are punished for crimes less frequently than men for the same crime, and serve less jail time when they are held responsible.
Women aren't untouchable just in terms of crime either.
I read online yesterday about when they were filming Magic Mike during one of the scenes while dudes were stripping and whatnot, one of the background women decided it would be fun to stick her finger in Matthew Mcconaughey's ass.
Like in, his ass.
So she does and he has a genuine reaction to a finger up the ass and the scene ends.
I guess they kept his reaction in the movie because it was so genuine and honest.
Then that is that.
Everyone laughs,this woman goes home and life moves on.
Now imagine if that was a female actress doing the stripping in a movie and one of the men on set stuck his finger in her ass just for kicks.
He would almost certainly be all over the news, charged with sexual assault, put in a sexual predator database, and pretty much destined to live out his life on a watch list.

How am I supposed to get behind the idea that women are downtrodden when things like this happen all the time and then next week I have to listen to someone on the news complaining that women have it so terrible.

Men have many perks over women, and women have many perks over men.
As far as human rights go in the Americas we are about as exactly equal as it gets.
In other places in the world not so much, but that isn't always an issue of gender so much as it is an issue of a terrible class system applied to everyone.
There are so many things to argue back and forth about feminism that it seems to be very easy to get off track.
The bottom line is that the sooner people start worrying about human problems and not gender problems, the sooner this whole equality things would actually happen.

It is perfectly acceptable to fear and admire a being you could not possibly understand.


#63 Coconut Man

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 06:37 PM

Whoa. This is the first debate I've seen where nobody was held at gunpoint, or where nobody died! Thank you all for not turning into a pyromaniac.

Anyways, these are my views on this situation.

I'm not going to waste time arguing about the definition of a feminist vs. a humanist, because that's not really related to the topic at hand. I mean, it is, but it's not the focal point of the argument.

I, personally, am ALL for women's rights. 100%. I don't think that women have achieved that perfect equality yet, and, I think to some, very small extent they never will. Before you yell at me politely, allow me to explain.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights...



-Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson.

I'm not referencing the men part, although that was true at the time of writing. But, if you think about it, 100% equality is impossible even among men for a huge number of factors, even as (seemingly) trivial things like money, race, and, yes, gender. Yes, the government is unbiased when it comes to races and how rich someone is, but that doesn't mean society is as a whole. I'm not referencing the extreme racist bastards and the sexist pigs out there, although they'll be around forever. This would be true if from the beginning women were perceived as superior, and men inferior. Men, to some small extent, would never be 100% equal.

See, society isn't perfect. People will be judged. Forever. Even by tiny things. Maybe, in a ridiculously long time, when no trace of sexism/racism ever exists, there will be true equality.

The reason I referenced the Declaration of Independence, is that slavery was a common practice in the 13 colonies at that time, and Jefferson was implying, however accidentally, that maybe all men are created equal, but they aren't treated that way. And that's my point. People will never treat women 100% equally, however much they deserve it. Which they do. Women deserve rights. I'd love to live to see the day when the number of women raped drops to an insignificantly tiny number, like 1 out of every 200,000,000. Still a number, still people suffering, but a much smaller number. The thing is, equality will never be 100% achievable.

This is just my perspective. Feel free to tell me just how wrong I am. I'll respect your opinion and try to understand your position.

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#64 No-Danico

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:13 PM

I'd love to live to see the day when the number of women raped drops to an insignificantly tiny number, like 1 out of every 200,000,000. Still a number, still people suffering, but a much smaller number.


Why not just zero? And why every two hundred million? Is that an arbitrary number?

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#65 mightydamsels

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 10:01 PM

How am I supposed to get behind the idea that women are downtrodden when things like this happen all the time and then next week I have to listen to someone on the news complaining that women have it so terrible.


In North America women do life a pretty awesome life compared to millions of women who live in war torn countries where rape is used as a weapon.
However, I must remind you that reproductive rights such as birth control and abortion are still under debate, an issue that men should contribute their opinion but not be leading the decision making.

http://www.yourdailymedia.com/post/steubenville-covers-for-its-high-school-football-stars-rapists/ This also happens, along with countless occurences of sexual assault both major and minor. Ask most women, and they will tell you that they are always cautious when walking home at night in the dark.

On a seemingly not so serious matter, sex toys, mostly used by women, have only recently (as in two years ago) been deemed legal in a few states. This may not be an out right cry in the "war against women", but as women are the typical users of this product, I would say that there is an underlying issue with women having pleasure.

I also don't condone what was done to Matthew McConaughey. I understand that if certain roles were reversed in such situations, it would be far from funny.

#66 Affray

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:28 PM

That is supremely fucked up.
Some people are filth.

Both the sex toy and the birth control/abortion are tainted by the religious types who pipe up and piss on everyone's day.
I think men mostly support women in that repect, the people who are against abortion and whatnot tend to yell louder is all.

It is perfectly acceptable to fear and admire a being you could not possibly understand.


#67 Calvary

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 05:51 AM

Aye, plus that's a much bigger problem on the American continent than it is here. Over in most of Western and Northern Europe, women are pretty much in the driving seat when it comes to abortion. Oh and I'm relatively sure I could reel of a number of girls I know with a toy or two.

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