27 replies to this topic

[Champion of Cyrodiil]

so the president just addressed the nation. Said that left wing americans should watch videos like that to justify our newest attempt at being world police.  It's a tough call.  I mean, it's not REALLY our business... right?

[Champion of Cyrodiil]

And this, actually starts at 30:05

[Bowsette]

It is not America's business. It is not England's business. It is nobody's business but Syria's. If they want to fight, if they want to see one another suffer, let them. 

 

They've been suffering for years. Executions, political imprisonment, mass graves, abductions. Since the 60s, that country has been a hellhole, a pit of despair. Why now should we care? We haven't cared for so many years, years when their human rights were revoked entirely.

 

Sometimes, you have to fight for yourself. You can't always be protected from the horrors of the world. You become complacent.

 

The UK needs to look out for the UK. The US needs to look out for the US. Syria needs to look out for Syria.

[Cthulhu]

Obama--change you can bereave in.

[Benihime]

It is not America's business. It is not England's business. It is nobody's business but Syria's. If they want to fight, if they want to see one another suffer, let them. 
 
They've been suffering for years. Executions, political imprisonment, mass graves, abductions. Since the 60s, that country has been a hellhole, a pit of despair. Why now should we care? We haven't cared for so many years, years when their human rights were revoked entirely.
 
Sometimes, you have to fight for yourself. You can't always be protected from the horrors of the world. You become complacent.
 
The UK needs to look out for the UK. The US needs to look out for the US. Syria needs to look out for Syria.

The Middle East has been doing this for centuries.
One would think the world would have learned the hard lessons of the crusades.
And think about it; the dead are the lucky ones~they don't have to deal with the BS anymore. They are now beyond the reach of the politicians.

[Champion of Cyrodiil]

you cant jusitfy all of your choices based on the past. its important to learn from history, but not be blinded by it. regardless of what happened 1000 years ago, the fact is today we have educated people using cell phones to show the world the horrific things that are going on. you shouldnt compare apples to oranges.

and i think its totally our business. especially when our allies are footing the bill for the medical treatment and sanctuary for all of these refugees flooding into turkey, jordan, and other stable countries in the region.

the last thing we need is chemical weapons being used in neighboring countries. its clear Assad has lost control. i hold him and his regime responsible for what happens in his country, regardless of who did it.

[Benihime]

We have enough problems in this country that we need to address before we go around telling others how they should be living their lives and governing their people.
Our government is completely corrupt and out of control, and they are going to do as they want despite what most of Americans want.
And then there is the fact that "where did the weapons come from" question that every one of the politicians is ignoring.
I have a really bad feeling they came from the USA, and prove that our meddling has in part caused this.
Just as the reason the middle eastern people hate us?
Cause we just keep telling them how to live and giving maniacs the wmd's to kill them.

[Champion of Cyrodiil]

I'm not against taking action purely by the merit of taking action, I'm against the knee-jerk reactions that always comes of shit like this.

 

I don't understand why the US couldn't just wait for UN officials to do their investigation before going full retard - that would, at the very least, appease Russia and most likely sway public opinion.

 

I find it kind of funny that Putin has been the voice of reason through all of this.

 

 

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

 

My guess is that our Intelligence sources (which have more information than any one person can fathom) already knew the weapons came out of Syria.  Whether al-assad used them or not isnt the issue IMO.  The issue is that a country who is not playing ball with the CWC allowed chem weapons to be deployed, plain as day.  Because this violates the treaty to destroy chemical weapons, that a majority of the UN states already signed, why should we bother waiting around for a couple of Swedes to take soil samples?

 

The videos are clear, our sources on the ground confirmed it.  If anything, the US 'knee-jerk' reaction is probably the only reason Russia & Syria are even pushing for a diplomatic solution.  The Syrian government doesn't want to be over thrown and Russia doesn't want to lose an ally.

 

As far as public opinion goes? Fuck'em.  Most people want to sit back in their safe home and point fingers at the TV and fantasize about all the "practical" solutions that don't involve force.  While less than 10% of any population even joins the military, and generally 10% of that group are the ones who actually see combat and have searched bunkers for all types of weapons.  So what would the public know about the requirements of a military operation anyway?  In my experience the Troops are mostly proud and honored to fight for freedom of others, regardless of what country they are from.  Especially those in 3rd world countries with nobody fighting for them; at least then your sacrifice is truly appreciated.  And let's not forget the contractors and civilian employees who are industry experts in the support they provide.

 

If we left it up to the public to decide, the deaths of several innocent people would be buried by Monday Night Football even more so than it already has.

[Calvary]

What's the point in creating a power vacuum by destroying Assad? What do America and her allies expect to achieve by deposing one dictator when there are so many factions equally as brutal and murderous ready to take his place? This is a problem to by solved by the ever-complacent Arab League and Russia. In fact, of all people, it is Poo-tin championing a potential negotiation. 'Tomahawk missile bombardment of Damascus' is not a fucking solution to civilians being shelled.

[Bowsette]

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

"Good men" in this case being a country whom, in the past 70 years, has attempted to destroy over 50 foreign countries leaving millions upon millions dead, and the survivors in a worse position than they were under their so-called dictators.

 

If we left it up to the public to decide, the deaths of several innocent people would be buried by Monday Night Football even more so than it already has.

 

Like the mass graves in Syria that nobody gave a fuck about until now?

 

Sweet, sweet hypocrisy

[Calvary]

Let's both pick up guns, head on over and shoot some sand-people then eh?

[Calvary]

I know you're not, I'm just being crass for the sake of being crass.

 

I'm just interested to see where Russian mediation goes really. If Putin can strike some sort of deal that protects Assad's life, he might surrender.

[Cthulhu]

I'm pretty sure Russia is the only reason we're not bombing the fuck out of Syria right now.

[Calvary]

I think it's a little more complex than that. At the end of the day, Congress is leaning against intervention whilst your spokespeople keep sabre rattling and threatening missile strikes (which will just increase the civilian death toll, btw). This might mean one of two things:

 

a.) The head of the country doesn't know what the tail is doing.

b.) Your government has read the Art of War.

[Champion of Cyrodiil]

What's the consequence of letting the UN do their job? Nothing. What's the consequence of not letting the UN do their job? Russia's pissed, China's pissed and a whole other slew of possibilities. Sometimes you have to jump through hoops (or rather just be fucking patient); that's politics.

 

You can't just be a part of the UN and then go off and do whatever you please, the whole point is unity and acting as a whole. I don't understand why the US even cares about the UN when it would obviously rather participate in vigilantism. 

 

Public opinion matters; Vietnam is a pretty good example. :^)

 

We all know the UN is just a bunch of balding delegates sitting around on their ass trying to get their vote in on something that they havent the balls nor resources to affect.  Aka: justifying their existence. 

 

And on the same note of not going off to do whatever you please, i think that when you turn your back on enforcing the terms previously agreed with, that is essentially doing whatever you please as well.

 

And yes, Vietnam is a great example of the public spitting on troops.

[Champion of Cyrodiil]

What's the point in creating a power vacuum by destroying Assad? What do America and her allies expect to achieve by deposing one dictator when there are so many factions equally as brutal and murderous ready to take his place? This is a problem to by solved by the ever-complacent Arab League and Russia. In fact, of all people, it is Poo-tin championing a potential negotiation. 'Tomahawk missile bombardment of Damascus' is not a fucking solution to civilians being shelled.

1.) The U.S. President specifically said that Assad is not the target, that we learned our lesson the 1st time we ousted a dictator 10 years ago. (2nd video of the thread) So nobody has mentioned 'destroying assad'

2.) 1 dead terrorist out of 1000 is better than none.

3.) This is not a 'problem to be solved' like Math, this is a genocide and tragedy perpetuated by government and/or militia that needs to be stopped using military force.

4.) Most of the people living in Damascus have either fled to another country or are already dead.

5.) Don't convince yourself that Putin is Championing anything.  The Chinese are always skeptical of everything we do, and Putin is just trying to keep his assets in check.  Its purely self motivated and I doubt anyone in a country like Russia gives a shit about a bunch of dead Syrians.

6.) I believe the plan is to target known chemical weapon manufacturing plants.  Not the Starbucks in downtown Damascus.