26 replies to this topic

[NervousNerd]

Ok so is it me or are childrens games like crash bandicoot, spyro etc harder to complete then games like, gta, resident evil, fpses etc?
What is up with that,it`s hardly an incentive for children to play games that get them stressed.
I just can`t complete crash bandicoot on the hard difficulty, yet GTA,MoH i done really easy.

[Matty_poo]

I wouldn't really call crash and spyro kids games, they're made to be all ages. Now actual kids games are impossible, my little sister got a zoozoo pet game and I took the controller once to help her, it's quite obvious they didn't even try to make a proper game.

[NervousNerd]

They`re aimed at kids so to me they`re kids games.What`s a zoozoo?

[Matty_poo]

But they really weren't (not crash at least) he was supposed to be the mario and sonic of the playstation, although after the 3rd one he kinda fell into obscurity. as for the zoozoo pets (or zhuzhu i guess?) http://en.wikipedia....ki/Zhu_Zhu_Pets

[Bowsette]

I don't really find any games difficult. I remember completing all the Crash, Spyro, Sonic games etc. with very little trouble. However, the more "adult" games provide more ways to beat things, be it shortcuts, additional weapons, glitches, etc.

[Affray]

I don't really find any games difficult. I remember completing all the Crash, Spyro, Sonic games etc. with very little trouble. However, the more "adult" games provide more ways to beat things, be it shortcuts, additional weapons, glitches, etc.

The problem is that newer generations have become accustomed to games handing them everything they need at every turn and don't have to try all that hard to accomplish anything.

Older generations are accustomed to games giving them the finger at every turn and making them work for every inch of progress they made, only to take it all away in an instant, forcing you to start all over again.

Games weren't hard for us older folk because we became hard, impervious to the dastardly wiles of the old ways of gaming, and nwere generations have a hard time coping with games that actually chalenge them.

Science.

[tlh1123]

I remember playing some pretty hard games as a kid. Seems like now, as mentioned above, there are multiple ways to win.

I remember playing "Digimon World" as a kid. Now I know it's not a hard game but it took time and as a kid it frustrated me more than anything, but it was super fun. What made it frustrating is training up your digimon from a beginner to ultimate and then after time in the game your digimon would get old and pass away thus making you go through the whole process all over again.

Don't get me wrong, there were harder games out there but this was one in particular I remember spending many hours of my childhood on. I had my first rage on that game...

[Matty_poo]

Can I just say that the "older gamers were good because our games and new gamers suck because they're easy" argument sucks? personal opinion sure, but a lot of older games were hard in superficial ways, like the actual game mechanics not functioning properly, rather than a far straight up challenge, not all games obviously but a lot. Yes a lot of new games are easy, but there are some damn hard. I know a lot of hate has been thrown its way, but seriously, download the new DMC demo, and try it on son of sparda difficulty, unless you have your senses on high alert and you're ready to go balls to the wall, you're gonna get your ass handed to you.

[Bowsette]

Ninja Gaiden's Master Ninja mode. 'nuff said. >.>

[LonesomeDrifter]

I miss Crash

[Coconut Man]

Well, personally, I think that back in 1985 when Super Mario came out, sure, there were other video games out in arcades, but the NES, and, by extension, Mario, nearly monopolized the home console market. Well, we all know that if a monopoly exists, you can do whatever you want because people don't have anywhere else to go, and Super Mario Bros., if you didn't grow up on that game, beating it compared to today's games was pretty hard. Now, games aren't really as hard because if it's too hard, most people eventually quit and go play another game, so money would be lost.

There are exceptions, though.
For example, in Mario Kart Wii (Yes, I have a Wii ), the 150cc AI was impossibly difficult. I guarantee you that at least one time in playing that cc, before you get 1st place in all the cups, you will go from first to last without falling off or getting hit by a blue shell. If this doesn't happen to you, show me the proof, and I will recognize you as the master of Mario Karting.
Until then....
Just my perspective.

[Wolf]

Time for me to sounds like an oldfag...

Back in the day of arcades, difficulty was an intentional tool used to increase profits from games. They didn't do it in the spirit of "Lets make an impossible game, and get everyone's quarters", they actually did it in the spirit of todays metrics: Trying to find a sweet spot where the game was challenging, without being too unfair [most arcade games were unfair at the time], so that people would try the game once, and get their ass handed to them, and another day come back with a few quarters and try again. But, essentially, all the mechanics were designed around the "Quarter-per-play" model, and the games weren't forgiving as a result. They would pad adventure games, add crazy rubber-banding to racing and fighting games, and use other cheap tricks so that a player couldnt get so good that he/she didn't have to pay. If you wanna see this mechanic in action, download a MAME emulator and play Metal Slug, any of them, and see how many quarters it takes to get to the end. [usually around 50 for a singleplayer casual playthrough; over $10]

On the shift to home console, when consumers found for a one-time payment they could enjoy a game as much as they wanted from their own home, the degree of difficulty diminished. Games could use other tools, such as story, fetch-quests, grinding, puzzle-solving, and plain ol' random luck to pad their game. Some games still catered to the hardcore market, though. Good examples are games like Megaman; a game anyone can pick up and play, but a game most people don't finish.

But, as games have progressed further and further, they have reached out to a bigger market. Many series, in an attempt to rope in "casual" players, will make their games easier by default. Thankfully, many of these games will add scaling difficulty [easy, medium, hard] so that the game can be enjoyed by all players, casual, mid-core, and hardcore gamers alike, with a challenge there for anyone who wants it. Games have become more accessible, and as a result easier to play, and easier in general. Add that to increased playtesting, and more responsive, intuitive controls, and you'll see that games as a whole have moved away from raw difficulty as a mechanic, with some exceptions. [those exceptions using that as a selling point: Dark/demon souls, Ninja Gaiden, DmC etc etc.]

That all being said, getting back on-topic, child games, or "games for all ages" usually are unfairly difficult because of the the faux-padding I mentioned before. These games often don't have the big, AAA-developer cash [for reasons explained later], and often have to use older mechanics and systems to make a game appealing. One of these older mechanics is, of course, unfair difficulty. It's extremely cost-efficient and easy to implement, and aimed towards an age group that doesn't know any better [A child isn't going to get fed up and purchase another game themselves]. Of course, nowadays the "games for all ages" market is dying a slow death, with parents blindly buying AAA Adult games for their children and an oversaturated mobile market with plenty of free, "kid-friendly" games, there really isn't much place for AAA "kid games" anymore, unless they also appeal equally to adult players [Mario and Rayman being perfect examples]. Even then, many publishers won't risk it when they have the IP to a gritty, realistic shooter that can guarantee them ~1million sales at launch.

[Affray]

Can I just say that the "older gamers were good because our games and new gamers suck because they're easy" argument sucks? personal opinion sure, but a lot of older games were hard in superficial ways, like the actual game mechanics not functioning properly, rather than a far straight up challenge, not all games obviously but a lot. Yes a lot of new games are easy, but there are some damn hard. I know a lot of hate has been thrown its way, but seriously, download the new DMC demo, and try it on son of sparda difficulty, unless you have your senses on high alert and you're ready to go balls to the wall, you're gonna get your ass handed to you.

Just because a statement is over-used does not make it wrong.
Some games were difficult due to poor mechanics, but a lot were hard just because they were hard.
People who didn't grow up in this era tend to get a bit offended when they are told that their generation's games aren't as tough, and often misconstrue that as being told that they are inferior.
I know six year olds that can kick royal ass at Mortal Kombat because they were exposed to it and trained properly.

Now that I think about it, maybe it is all that grueling effort that older gamers have put in to mastering games with impossible levels and or impossible game mechanics that has simply made us super adaptable to any difficulty in any game.

That and all that science that Wolf brought up.
Man I love science.

[Matty_poo]

I would argue with you, but you're now saying that because I beat contra without the extra lives code i'm some sort of superhuman, I'll agree with that. and I'm not saying the idea behind it is bad, just that as stated it is over used by a lot of people who just want to be elitest. you seem to have the right idea but others are basically just going " well my games are older so i'm better." also new gamers can love old games, my little brothers favorite game in the world is megaman 2.

[Affray]

I am glad we are at an understanding.
No offense is meant of course.

If a kid is raised palying old school games, he is an old school gamer in my eyes.
The only problem is that the newer generations don't usually get themselves exposed to that sort of thing.
Which makes me sad.

When I have kids I am considering giving them an NES when they turn three and not telling them about other consoles until they go to kindergarten, where they will receive a SNES.
Then in the following years I will gradually upgrade them through the consoles until they are at the current system for the time.
They will become gods among mere mortals.

As for their friends exposing them to other consoles too early, I will just train my children as early as possible to minimalize this threat.
Or hope they have no friends for a while when they are young.

[Wolf]

As for their friends exposing them to other consoles too early, I will just train my children as early as possible to minimalize this threat.
Or hope they have no friends for a while when they are young.

"Dad... what is Call of Duty?"

"Back to the sensory deprivation chamber for you."

[No-Danico]

I am glad we are at an understanding.
No offense is meant of course.

If a kid is raised palying old school games, he is an old school gamer in my eyes.
The only problem is that the newer generations don't usually get themselves exposed to that sort of thing.
Which makes me sad.

When I have kids I am considering giving them an NES when they turn three and not telling them about other consoles until they go to kindergarten, where they will receive a SNES.
Then in the following years I will gradually upgrade them through the consoles until they are at the current system for the time.
They will become gods among mere mortals.

As for their friends exposing them to other consoles too early, I will just train my children as early as possible to minimalize this threat.
Or hope they have no friends for a while when they are young.

I am in lesbian with this idea!

One Friday afternoon back when I was a child my parents went out on a date and I was left at my Aunt’s for the night. She took me to the rental place (Remember when those were a thing?) to find a game. I got the very first copy of Super Mario World when the girl was putting it on the shelf. I played until midnight to only get to the fourth castle.

Now, flash forward to adulthood. A few years ago I buy a Wii at Gamestop. I pick up a few games, Dragon Quest Swords, No More Heroes, and of course, Mario Galaxy.

I beat that game in a few hours. It was a pathetic attempt at Mario. Personally, I felt betrayed. What happened to Mario? The attempt at whimsy just wasn’t on par with the Wonderland of Super Mario World’s Dino Land. The difficulty was laughable when compared to 64. That was the day that Nintendo died in my eyes.

I don’t think it’s because I’m jaded, which I am. I went into that game with eyes bright and tail bushed, excited to have a new adventure with my brother from a different mother, Mario.
Games just aren’t the same, and part of my black heart aches as I type this simple truth. RPG’s storylines aren’t as strong. Platformers are watered down. The only gametype that has truly improved is shooters.

Look at an obscure game that holds a strong grip on my heart: Harvest Moon. I loved the old ones. 64 was the best. The PS1 one was great, an improvement over 64 in many ways. I played the SNES one on an emulator. Hell, the Gameboy one was epic in it’s own way.

The Moon for the Gamecube was weaksauce. The Wii one was worse. Gameplay has improved, there are more options for farming, new animals, crops, all of that. What has changed? The ‘soul,’ if you will. That’s what changed.

[Matty_poo]

The problem with mario games is that they would make a mario game back then and take their time. now there MUST be a mario game, and they know it will sell so just kinda push it through. New games and game types that stray from the norm get punished with dismal sales, so most don't try. I'm glad games like dragon's dogma are able to still make enough money but the problem is that it's now a series because thats how companies make money rather than coming up with new ideas. They are forced to redo the same ones.

[No-Danico]

That's why I applaud the advent of indi gamemakers on Xbox live. Little companies can make a game and get it into mainstream audience's hands. There are a lot of programmers making good games on the interweb, but most of my friends will never even hear about them unless I give them a link.