I think I need to move away from PHP

I'm a fucking wizard with it, but I feel like it's instilling bad coding practices into my nature as a programmer.

The question is, what do I move on to? Python? I've got beginner experience in Python, but the syntax annoys me. Ruby? Everyone tells me ruby is dying, I don't want to waste time learning something that wont be relevant. I'm really leaning towards python, but I'd like anyone to try and convince me to switch to their server-side language.

Meh, depends on what you're building really. Ruby is a beautiful language and is extremely consistent, but it also doesn't have caching like ASP.NET/java so load times are slower.

For point of reference, on careers 2.0 there's 1431 jobs listed - 564 are tagged java, 524 are tagged ruby, 521 python, 319 PHP, 277 C#, 273 C++

I'm really just looking for a replacement for PHP that isn't going to degrade my best practices. I certainly wont be using Java, though.

I always hear script writers rambling on about how great Perl is.  Maybe take a look at that.

I always hear script writers rambling on about how great Perl is.  Maybe take a look at that.

Sarcasm, har har.

It seems like Python is becoming pretty popular. It's not a hard language to pick up either.

Yeah, I'm just very hesitant because "lol whitespace"

I'm a fucking wizard with it, but I feel like it's instilling bad coding practices into my nature as a programmer.

 

The question is, what do I move on to? Python? I've got beginner experience in Python, but the syntax annoys me. Ruby? Everyone tells me ruby is dying, I don't want to waste time learning something that wont be relevant. I'm really leaning towards python, but I'd like anyone to try and convince me to switch to their server-side language.

Why not use a php framework? I personally use symfony and I love it. It forces a coding pattern on you, and keeps your code clean. 

It is difficult to learn (it took me around 4 month of daily work on it to really learn it) but once you do learn it, development becomes much much faster. It is very organized and reuses code very efficiently 

If you know the principles behind your trade, you are not going to be corrupted by a specific task.

The context-dependent learning model implies that you will be able to catch yourself while programming in other languages because you will be saying to yourself, "This is how I would do it in PHP."

Regardless, learn every language that you can. Without formal training, it makes you more well-rounded, and it helps you understand the purpose of programming languages in the first place.  Each answer to the first question of programming ("What do I want to be easy in this programming language") is different, so each language is going to have different practices and procedures to take advantage of its creator's ideas for it.

That said, Perl is still better than Python.

If you know the principles behind your trade, you are not going to be corrupted by a specific task.

The context-dependent learning model implies that you will be able to catch yourself while programming in other languages because you will be saying to yourself, "This is how I would do it in PHP."

Regardless, learn every language that you can. Without formal training, it makes you more well-rounded, and it helps you understand the purpose of programming languages in the first place.  Each answer to the first question of programming ("What do I want to be easy in this programming language") is different, so each language is going to have different practices and procedures to take advantage of its creator's ideas for it.

 

That said, Perl is still better than Python.

you win my "wat" of the day

pls no perl

and some languages will teach you patterns that don't carry over to any other language, so I wouldn't say learning any language is the same as the rest.

I agree with the specificity of programming languages--I meant to imply that each language is going to have its own "mode" or "feel," and that practicing one language is not going to corrupt your other learned languages.

In regard to the perl gambit, I think everyone hates it solely because ##perl on FreeNode is full of too-specific crazies.

I think grim nailed it on the head. To be truly good you need to solve the problem.  And when you look at a big problem, it's rarely solved with a single language or framework.  Being well rounded and understanding the principal nature of your work is the best course.  I feel as though every language or framework i have tried is easier than the previous... once i learn it of course.  But the learning curves get easier when you understand more overall.

Last week I realized I basically had 5 business days to figure out how to convert a few dozen map reduce jobs into an oozie workflow.  Which uses its own expression language.  Same thing a few months back with 'Drools' data enrichment.  I would say try and find a project that interests you, and is different from what your normally working on, and learn an entire new perspective.  

Also, Java is the best.

PHP is almost as cool... except for the fact its weakly typed and doesn't enforce standards.  Honestly, I've grown fond of Java since I havent touched PHP in a long time.  But i do still go to PHP when i want something quick and dirty, that i plan to stuff in a folder like some accountant's vb macro.

Hello 
Software development is a dynamic field. New and in-demand programming languages, frameworks and technologies can emerge, rise to fame, and then fade away in the course of a few years. Developers need to constantly be learning new skills to stay relevant.
As you said you want to try Python, it's really good. I am sharing a List of demanding skills here
1.JavaScript

2.python

3.Ruby(on Rails)

4.Java

5.PHP

6.Objective C

7.SQL

8.C++

9.C

10.C#

Python is second demanding skill in this list I have shared with you, So as you are thinking to move on to Python, you can go for it.