Jump to content

Photo

Leelah Alcorn

transgender suicide

  • Please log in to reply
39 replies to this topic

#21 Bowsette

Bowsette

    Tentacular!

  • Members
  • 4,064 posts

Posted 03 January 2015 - 04:55 PM

You're funny. Stupid, but funny. Casting aspersions based on my internet persona? If it helps you sleep at night, go ahead. Say everything you want to.

 

Meanwhile, I'll go and live the pretty great life I have because I didn't kill myself. It's funny you cite "weaboo teen" as an argument. Especially on a forum devoted to all the nerdy things, like anime, or books.

 

But like I said, keep it up. You're funny. Maybe you'll even be able to construct a decent argument instead of gormless bitching.

 

Regarding the link, I doubt it will have any impact. As I mentioned (multiple times), Joshua/Leelah was still underage, and therefore a ward of their parents. As such, the parents will likely have the final say in things like grave markers, and Tumblr's bitching likely will not alter that fact.


LL1Yc5i.gif

“Shimatta! Bare… nan no koto kashira?”


#22 Affray

Affray

    Knower of things

  • Members
  • 5,753 posts
  • LocationThe Great White North

Posted 03 January 2015 - 05:11 PM

https://www.change.o...rue-remembrance

 

There's even a petition going to have the name "Leelah" on the tombstone since most people realize the name she wanted to be called that aligned with the gender the identified as is different than some weeaboo teen wanting to be called Shiro. 

 

That's all the more I'm going to say. A shame this thread got so derailed. 

Isn't discussion about the problems suffered by people with gender related intolerance, being held by people who have suffered gender related intolerance, exactly on topic?


It is perfectly acceptable to fear and admire a being you could not possibly understand.


#23 BloodPrince 2.0

BloodPrince 2.0

    Megabyte

  • Members
  • 336 posts

Posted 03 January 2015 - 05:57 PM

Good point. Signed.
“The exchange went unnoticed by the world, just one
other of many exchanges between a multitude of
strangers, acquaintances, friends, or enemies all around.”

#24 Silver_rose

Silver_rose

    Gigabyte

  • Members
  • 936 posts
  • LocationLoading...

Posted 03 January 2015 - 07:16 PM

But like I said, keep it up. You're funny. Maybe you'll even be able to construct a decent argument instead of gormless bitching.

 

Maybe calling you a weaboo wasn't in good taste, but they're right. The situation of someone's name of the inside persona is being held back by the name of the outer persona is very different from wanting to change your name because you don't like your current one. Will your life change much because you find a name that reflects your true self, or is this a situation that which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet? One is superficial, the other has significant psychological and spiritual meaning. Your argument is flawed because it has been rejected by the person it has been given to, it had no meaning to her, and the only weight it carried was on Leelah's psyche and is an insult to her life.

 

I agree with many of the people here that suicide isn't selfish, but it should only be sought if no other option exists.

I've had depression since I was 10 (self recognised) and was properly diagnosed at 22, I managed to be ignored by the system for 12 years until one of my suicide attempts put me in hospital because I have friends who actually care. I had suicidal thoughts all the time, I dreamt about dying at least 3 times a week, I wanted to escape from my family, I felt trapped.

When the opportunity arrived that I could get out, I took it. I can't say things have gotten better, but they have changed. I don't dream about dying anymore, I rarely have thoughts and images of dying and I never feel the phrase "I want to die" let alone say it. This is all due to barely being in contact with the arseholes who tormented me through my childhood, I live with one arsehole and I can handle that and I'm doing all I can to get away from that arsehole. I'm dealing with my issues, I am changing, my life is changing and one day I may be truly happy and I hope to be. This will never change my stance on suicide.

Your situation is/was different to mine, your depression or suicide attempts may have been fuelled for another reason than to escape, which could have shaped your opinion that suicidal attempts are selfish and cowardly.

 

Until having experienced the need to truly escape from what ever has you captured in your pain and torment, I'm not sure how anyone could understand.


Because I can...


#25 Bowsette

Bowsette

    Tentacular!

  • Members
  • 4,064 posts

Posted 03 January 2015 - 07:45 PM

Maybe calling you a weaboo wasn't in good taste, but they're right. The situation of someone's name of the inside persona is being held back by the name of the outer persona is very different from wanting to change your name because you don't like your current one. Will your life change much because you find a name that reflects your true self, or is this a situation that which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet? One is superficial, the other has significant psychological and spiritual meaning. Your argument is flawed because it has been rejected by the person it has been given to, it had no meaning to her, and the only weight it carried was on Leelah's psyche and is an insult to her life.

 

I agree with many of the people here that suicide isn't selfish, but it should only be sought if no other option exists.

I've had depression since I was 10 (self recognised) and was properly diagnosed at 22, I managed to be ignored by the system for 12 years until one of my suicide attempts put me in hospital because I have friends who actually care. I had suicidal thoughts all the time, I dreamt about dying at least 3 times a week, I wanted to escape from my family, I felt trapped.

When the opportunity arrived that I could get out, I took it. I can't say things have gotten better, but they have changed. I don't dream about dying anymore, I rarely have thoughts and images of dying and I never feel the phrase "I want to die" let alone say it. This is all due to barely being in contact with the arseholes who tormented me through my childhood, I live with one arsehole and I can handle that and I'm doing all I can to get away from that arsehole. I'm dealing with my issues, I am changing, my life is changing and one day I may be truly happy and I hope to be. This will never change my stance on suicide.

Your situation is/was different to mine, your depression or suicide attempts may have been fuelled for another reason than to escape, which could have shaped your opinion that suicidal attempts are selfish and cowardly.

 

Until having experienced the need to truly escape from what ever has you captured in your pain and torment, I'm not sure how anyone could understand.

Well, the name comment was because I don't really think a name alone matters. You could be a guy named Marie, or a girl named Peter. Would not matter. Names don't matter. If you feel you're a girl internally, that's perfectly fine. If you want to bring those internal feelings out and manifest them externally, that's fine too. But with that said, I keep coming back to this one point that nobody seems to have an answer for. Joshua was legally a child. And your comment kind of fits with it. "Until having experienced [what we're discussing] I'm not sure how anyone could understand." That goes for Joshua's parents as well. Most of the vocal proponents for the story (on Tumblr at least, and I am unsure about here; I don't know Launch's, or BloodPrince's age) appear quite young. Certainly not old enough to have children of their own. Because of that, it's odd to see so much complaining about the mother in particular not wanting to believe that her child despises everything about itself. That your child, your flesh and blood, is angry about their birth, and it probably would come across as the child blaming the parent. How would that feel?

 

I said it earlier in the thread, too. I really feel for the mother because she's being punished for the beliefs she's probably held since shortly after her own birth. That's what, 40ish years? And then her child rocks that entire belief system? I dunno about others, but I'd feel pretty hurt. I don't even know how I would react if I were in her position. Obviously, I'm not religious, so that part wouldn't alter my viewpoint. But even so, if my daughter came to me and said she was a boy, not a girl, I honestly can't say how I'd react. And so I really don't like the way others are acting like she's a pariah. Especially when you take into account that she has to bury her own child. Male, female, gay, straight, I don't give a flying fuck. No mother should have to do that, ever. And of course, the social justice warriors are flipping their shit over "improper use of pronouns" instead of thinking "that family has suffered a lot, maybe we should let them mourn". When you get down to brass tacks, a corpse is a corpse, and that's all Leelah is now.

 

Regarding the suicide attempts comment (just wanna broach that a little), most of my attempts were made in an effort to escape. Life seemed awful. There was no light or happiness in my mind, and it basically came down to "why bother waking up?" So I tried to die. I really did. I attempted multiple times over the course of three years. I tried to OD, I tried hanging myself, I cut myself. But as you can see, here I am. And I believe I'm a stronger person now. I was weak back then, I wasn't strong enough to fend off the dark thoughts that told me my only use was as a lifeless sack of bones in the ground. I was a coward. I was afraid to actually face the issues that confronted me, and I tried to run away from them via self-harm. But now it's better. I still suffer depression, I'm still prescribed pills. I have bad days. But I have a reason, a duty to stay alive. I won't run any more.

 

So, that's why I view suicide as a cowardly act. Because to me, it epitomised the cowardice in my mind back then.


LL1Yc5i.gif

“Shimatta! Bare… nan no koto kashira?”


#26 Mister Sympa

Mister Sympa

    Ascended Prophet

  • Moderators
  • 4,444 posts
  • LocationUSA, Earth, Milky Way

Posted 03 January 2015 - 09:31 PM

Kids can be transgender, too, mate.

 

They're still people.

 

And about the mother being "hurt" by her beliefs being rocked:

 

Not a single fuck is given.

 

I've spent YEARS giving fucks on that topic. It's bullshit.

 

Which do you love more, your beliefs or your child?

 

If it's a tough decision, you don't deserve your child.


tumblr_ojjqahjSmc1rtecnto2_400.gif


#27 (V) (`m`) (V) ︵ ┻━┻

(V) (`m`) (V) ︵ ┻━┻

    Forever in debt to your priceless advice.

  • Members
  • 10,996 posts
  • LocationThey're coming to take me away..

Posted 03 January 2015 - 10:07 PM

Kids can be transgender, too, mate.

 

They're still people.

 

And about the mother being "hurt" by her beliefs being rocked:

 

Not a single fuck is given.

 

I've spent YEARS giving fucks on that topic. It's bullshit.

 

Which do you love more, your beliefs or your child?

 

If it's a tough decision, you don't deserve your child.

Wonderfully put.

Thank you.


ΝΙΨΟΝ ΑΝΟΜΗΜΑΤΑ ΜΗ ΜΟΝΑΝ ΟΨΙΝ

obazNZl.gif


#28 Mister Sympa

Mister Sympa

    Ascended Prophet

  • Moderators
  • 4,444 posts
  • LocationUSA, Earth, Milky Way

Posted 03 January 2015 - 10:14 PM

tumblr_nhfa3hKpjz1qde9k6o1_1280.jpg

 

tumblr_nhfa3hKpjz1qde9k6o2_1280.jpg

 

 

Didn't.

Deserve.

Her daughter.


tumblr_ojjqahjSmc1rtecnto2_400.gif


#29 BloodPrince 2.0

BloodPrince 2.0

    Megabyte

  • Members
  • 336 posts

Posted 04 January 2015 - 04:15 AM

Kids can be transgender, too, mate.
 
They're still people.
 
And about the mother being "hurt" by her beliefs being rocked:
 
Not a single fuck is given.
 
I've spent YEARS giving fucks on that topic. It's bullshit.
 
Which do you love more, your beliefs or your child?
 
If it's a tough decision, you don't deserve your child.

I don't have words enough. You are right.
“The exchange went unnoticed by the world, just one
other of many exchanges between a multitude of
strangers, acquaintances, friends, or enemies all around.”

#30 BloodPrince 2.0

BloodPrince 2.0

    Megabyte

  • Members
  • 336 posts

Posted 04 January 2015 - 04:52 AM

And you know? Anyone who says coming out as trans is like blaming the parent has probably never been transgender. These feelings are totally different. I have never looked at my mother and thought "you are to blame for this!" On the contrary, I feel that I myself am the wrong one, and yet somehow I long for pure love from her, even if she doesn't really owe it to me - like you said, Haru, the world doesn't owe me shit. I know it owes me nothing, and that's what hurts the most. I want something so bad, it's really the only thing I truly want, something so many normal people have by default and take for granted, and yet no one owes it to me so I have no right to demand it. THIS IS NOT FUCKING BLAMING PARENTS. And these parents need to stop believing the whole world revolves around them! True, the one way my world does focus somewhat on them is that I wish they loved me before I wish for anyone else to love me. Is that so painful for them to accept?

When you truly love someone you want them to be happy and you'll sacrifice your own comfort for them. Is it such a big thing to give up, accepting that they don't want to be your doll to play dress up with?
This world is so fucked up.

If I said anything dumb, please forgive me. I'm still a bit angry after getting a long rant this morning over why I should stop cutting my hair and how my mom swears she really will hit me next time I try, because 'you are looking more and more like your brother than like a girl, and that is wrong. You need to stop before I let my hand slip and I sin, and it will be your fault.' Fuck..
“The exchange went unnoticed by the world, just one
other of many exchanges between a multitude of
strangers, acquaintances, friends, or enemies all around.”

#31 fae

fae

    Terabyte

  • Members
  • 1,329 posts
  • LocationOver the hills, where the seven dwarfs dwell

Posted 04 January 2015 - 05:59 AM

I have to be honest that I cannot relate to these problems that come with being transgender.

 

But I do understand the need of unconditional love. And personally I think this is the one thing that all parents should give to their child no matter what.


Et j'aime la nuit écouter les étoiles. C'est comme cinq cent millions de grelots. - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry


#32 Calvary

Calvary

    Conceptual

  • Members
  • 6,624 posts
  • Locationwww.

Posted 04 January 2015 - 06:01 AM

I'll just reiterate again: came out as pansexual to my ultra-Catholic, socially conservative Dad. He accepted it. He treats me the same level of love and respect he always has. He has come to question his church rather than an innate part of his son.

 

Religion is no fucking excuse to treat someone like shit. It's such a measly argument to sympathise for a shit-bag mother who caused her own daughter's death.

 

Seeing as that's the basis of half your argument, Xiao, maybe you could respond to that?


tumblr_om7nwjm5Wm1rsea1wo1_500.gif
Ask for my discord/Insta/Tumblr if you want.


#33 Mister Sympa

Mister Sympa

    Ascended Prophet

  • Moderators
  • 4,444 posts
  • LocationUSA, Earth, Milky Way

Posted 04 January 2015 - 07:09 AM

 I know it owes me nothing, and that's what hurts the most. I want something so bad, it's really the only thing I truly want, something so many normal people have by default and take for granted, and yet no one owes it to me so I have no right to demand it.

Oh my god, this. I still feel guilty about being trans sometimes. It sucks so much.

 

Also, your mother is a cunt of the highest order.


tumblr_ojjqahjSmc1rtecnto2_400.gif


#34 BloodPrince 2.0

BloodPrince 2.0

    Megabyte

  • Members
  • 336 posts

Posted 04 January 2015 - 02:35 PM

Oh Sympa. Made me chuckle right there at the last part. I wasn't expecting that bit, but you're probably right.
“The exchange went unnoticed by the world, just one
other of many exchanges between a multitude of
strangers, acquaintances, friends, or enemies all around.”

#35 Mister Sympa

Mister Sympa

    Ascended Prophet

  • Moderators
  • 4,444 posts
  • LocationUSA, Earth, Milky Way

Posted 04 January 2015 - 03:03 PM

I truly hope I didn't hurt you, but goddamn. Threatening violence to your child is just no fucking joke with me. Ever.


tumblr_ojjqahjSmc1rtecnto2_400.gif


#36 BloodPrince 2.0

BloodPrince 2.0

    Megabyte

  • Members
  • 336 posts

Posted 04 January 2015 - 04:06 PM

Hurt me? Nah, you make me feel more relaxed.

Some thoughts on this. I wanted to draw something fun but my musings got in the way.
VPZJV4f.jpg
“The exchange went unnoticed by the world, just one
other of many exchanges between a multitude of
strangers, acquaintances, friends, or enemies all around.”

#37 Mister Sympa

Mister Sympa

    Ascended Prophet

  • Moderators
  • 4,444 posts
  • LocationUSA, Earth, Milky Way

Posted 04 January 2015 - 04:09 PM

That is amazing. I want that to be, like, a cover of a novel.


tumblr_ojjqahjSmc1rtecnto2_400.gif


#38 Mister Sympa

Mister Sympa

    Ascended Prophet

  • Moderators
  • 4,444 posts
  • LocationUSA, Earth, Milky Way

Posted 04 January 2015 - 04:12 PM

Also, I'm really glad.


tumblr_ojjqahjSmc1rtecnto2_400.gif


#39 BloodPrince 2.0

BloodPrince 2.0

    Megabyte

  • Members
  • 336 posts

Posted 04 January 2015 - 04:12 PM

Good idea, maybe the concept would get more gears going.
“The exchange went unnoticed by the world, just one
other of many exchanges between a multitude of
strangers, acquaintances, friends, or enemies all around.”

#40 fae

fae

    Terabyte

  • Members
  • 1,329 posts
  • LocationOver the hills, where the seven dwarfs dwell

Posted 04 January 2015 - 04:56 PM

I want to press like multiple times on that picture...


Et j'aime la nuit écouter les étoiles. C'est comme cinq cent millions de grelots. - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry