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Ferguson, MO: No charges for Darren Wilson


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#1 Bowsette

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 11:31 PM

http://www.bbc.co.uk...canada-30188737

 

Hopefully this thread doesn't go off the rails >_>

 

Thoughts on this? Personally I have no opinion on the verdict itself. There were so many different news stories and reports on the events that finding fact from fiction was almost impossible. What I do have an opinion on however, is the violence that has been sparked already. Fires, looting, automatic gunfire, the St. Louis airport is closed apparently as well. All this despite Brown's family asking people to protest only in a civil and peaceful manner.

 

The ones perpetrating this violence shouldn't even be considered human, they're acting worse than animals.


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#2 No-Danico

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 11:57 PM

I've had CNN on the tv and, SIGH, /b/ on my laptop. I'm pretty much with you on this. There are corrupt cops in this world; there are dangerous criminals too. Who knows who's which in this situation. What I do know is shits on fire and I've heard the word fuck at least five times on CNN tonight. I feel horrible for the family. I feel horrible for the shop owners, too.

 

Also, just a second ago, 12:46 AM Eastern, dude on CNN said the liquor shop the kid held up was burnt down. The reporter said he spoke to the man who lit the fire and the arsonist said, and I'm paraphrasing, 'He was tired of things.' He was a local kid and the reporter suggested it was, right or wrong, a reaction to what the community saw as inaction from the system.

 

The whole thing boggles my mind. Putting aside the whole, why burn things at all statement, why burn your own damn community? Have you ever seen an animal shit where it sleeps? Come on, guys!

 

BTW, I feel like Mac from Sunny in Phili tonight, during the storm of the century episode?

 

sunny706-17.jpg

 

When I looked up this image I didn't remember the mad grin on his face. I'm watching, eating donuts, but not giggling or anything.

 

 

 


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#3 Bowsette

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 12:11 AM

I'm not watching it (Olif is sleeping and my earphones decided they don't want to work anymore) but I've been catching various newsfeeds, Twitter feeds, etc. It's just overall depressing, and I don't see it ending soon. The police are trapped in a cage right now. If they act, more rioting will happen. If they don't act, more rioting will happen. I do think they need to act, though. These people are acting like wild beasts, pretty much careening around smashing up whatever they happen to bump into first. They're criminals, plain and simple. And be it tazer, tranq guns, or live ammunition, they need to be put down. And it's extremely rare for me to advocate lethal force, but for what I believe is the greater good, these people need to be stopped as soon as possible.

 

Also stuff like this.

 

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Sigh.


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#4 Calvary

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 01:40 AM

If you throw too many stones at a bee hive, the bees will eventually swarm. An underclass can only take so much shit before they take action against those who perpetrate the systematic destruction of their freedoms as people. I have sympathy for those caught in the fallout but none for the corrupt police. I'll elaborate after work.

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#5 Silver_rose

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 06:27 AM

I haven't formed an opinion, I've decided to remain relatively oblivious to this because I don't have the energy to be informed to form an opinion. There are injustices in the world and I have been outraged by them, but whatever this actually is - I'm not really sure I want to know.


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#6 Bowsette

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 05:04 PM

If you throw too many stones at a bee hive, the bees will eventually swarm. An underclass can only take so much shit before they take action against those who perpetrate the systematic destruction of their freedoms as people. I have sympathy for those caught in the fallout but none for the corrupt police. I'll elaborate after work.

The problem is they're not attacking the ones they should (in theory) be attacking. The photo I posted was a pro-Brown protester, but because he wouldn't join in on the violence (and I'd hazard a guess that because he's white) he was attacked by the violent protesters. They're burning down people's livelihoods, and I don't understand why. It isn't rallying anyone to their cause, it's just promoting more looting (when the initial incident and riots occurred, there were quite a few news interviews with people who openly admitted they'd come from as far afield as Chicago to join in)

 

It's really sad that the boy died, but my sympathy wanes when his death is being used, against his family's wishes I might add, as a scapegoat to perpetrate such violence. Michael Brown Sr. asked the protesters to remain peaceful, begged them not to tarnish his son's memory. They ignored him, and decided to burn the place anyway. All they're doing is creating an even wider racial divide, and for the victims on both sides this could set them back 50 years as far as value systems go. It's going to be just like the aftermath of 9/11, when Americans considered any Muslim to be a threat. It's born from fear and hatred, and it probably isn't going to get better.


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#7 Big_Willie_Styles

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 06:42 PM

Based on the evidence available to us, it seems this was a sad case of a cop acting in self-defense.

 

He's just been interviewed by George Stephanopoulos like an hour ago.

The problem is they're not attacking the ones they should (in theory) be attacking. The photo I posted was a pro-Brown protester, but because he wouldn't join in on the violence (and I'd hazard a guess that because he's white) he was attacked by the violent protesters. They're burning down people's livelihoods, and I don't understand why. It isn't rallying anyone to their cause, it's just promoting more looting (when the initial incident and riots occurred, there were quite a few news interviews with people who openly admitted they'd come from as far afield as Chicago to join in)

 

It's really sad that the boy died, but my sympathy wanes when his death is being used, against his family's wishes I might add, as a scapegoat to perpetrate such violence. Michael Brown Sr. asked the protesters to remain peaceful, begged them not to tarnish his son's memory. They ignored him, and decided to burn the place anyway. All they're doing is creating an even wider racial divide, and for the victims on both sides this could set them back 50 years as far as value systems go. It's going to be just like the aftermath of 9/11, when Americans considered any Muslim to be a threat. It's born from fear and hatred, and it probably isn't going to get better.

That was a media talking point that didn't really match reality.  Yeah, people were terrified, but this didn't really amount to much in the way of actions.  Jewish people are still the largest target of hate crime in America.


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#8 No-Danico

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 07:02 PM

Michael Brown Sr. asked the protesters to remain peaceful, begged them not to tarnish his son's memory. They ignored him, and decided to burn the place anyway.

 

He wasn't the one who said, "Burn this bitch down. Burn this motherfucker down!" was he?

 

Never mind, I Googled and read this (http://www.cnn.com/2...=rss_topstories) and saw it was his step dad.

 

"His words were markedly different than those of Michael Brown Sr., who recorded a public service announcement last week, saying that "destroying property is not the answer."


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#9 Affray

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 11:13 PM

The looters are what is pissing me off the most about this whole thing.

As many of you are aware, I run a small business.

If something like this happened in my town and people started rioting and looting, and my shop got cleared out and/or destroyed, there would be no limit to the rage I would experience. I would immediately go full on Batman style vengeance mode and make it my mission in life to find out who destroyed my well being, endangering the future of my family, and relieve them of their possessions and make them feel as uncomfortable in their own homes just as they had done to my business.

 

Anyone who has the diminished intelligence to think that looting a random business because they are upset about a court scandal that has nothing to do with anything deserves nothing more than swift and vehement repercussion.


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#10 Grolli

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 06:56 AM

I feel for the family loosing a child.  I feel for the police officer that since the media has spun this entire thing into a frenzy, can no longer feel safe anywhere in America.

 

I am with 100% with Affray here.  I work in a family run business, and run a small business of my own.  If some shithead burned my business to the ground because he had "feelings" about a court opinion (that in NO WAY had anything to do with his family), it would be game on.



#11 Calvary

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 05:25 PM

This is all so much fucking bollocks. I waited a day to let some impartiality seep into my brain. It didn't really happen though.

 

First off let me straight up say Darren Wilson is a fucking scumbag who executed a kid in a racially aggravated attack. He acted in self-defence in the same way that I act in self-defence when a garden spider crawls on my leg. Complete fucking knee-jerk over-reaction. For the white-middle class male population of America of course, Darren Wilson has been immortalised as a hero of the current socio-political norms. The media has given him a platform to spread his smarmy-racist testimony. You'll notice that major civil rights leaders have sided with the Mike Brown party whilst the KKK has staunchly offered support to Wilson, the party of which the law has taken side. This is an unacceptable and disgusting state of affairs.

 

I hasten to add that the looting of innocent's houses and shops is completely wrong and unjustifiable, but not non-understandable. You of course have people hijacking these protests and race riots for their own personal gain, and these are morally unjustified minority that are directing their efforts to smashing up small businesses. When anger is directed at the people they see are fortunate and continue to oppress the significant 'minorities', then one can begin to understand why those, not motivated by greed and the want to cause destruction without reason, are targeting the government buildings, police cars and shop owners, they see that all these groups maintain the rotten status quo. Exactly the same thing happened in the 2011 London Race Riots.

 

Ferguson is so much more than Mike Brown now. It's about Trayvon Martin, Diana Showman, Joseph Kennings, fucking...Tamir Rice a 12 year old who police shot two seconds after pulling up in their squad car. Two. Fucking. Seconds.

 

I'm all for peace and diplomacy, I'm a quasi-pacifist for fuck sake but when diplomacy fails there's only one route of action left and that is what some of the Ferguson protesters are resulting to. Remember, Martin Luther King spoke out against violence and got shot in the fucking head.


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#12 Big_Willie_Styles

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 07:14 PM

This is all so much fucking bollocks. I waited a day to let some impartiality seep into my brain. It didn't really happen though.

 

First off let me straight up say Darren Wilson is a fucking scumbag who executed a kid in a racially aggravated attack. He acted in self-defence in the same way that I act in self-defence when a garden spider crawls on my leg. Complete fucking knee-jerk over-reaction. For the white-middle class male population of America of course, Darren Wilson has been immortalised as a hero of the current socio-political norms. The media has given him a platform to spread his smarmy-racist testimony. You'll notice that major civil rights leaders have sided with the Mike Brown party whilst the KKK has staunchly offered support to Wilson, the party of which the law has taken side. This is an unacceptable and disgusting state of affairs.

 

I hasten to add that the looting of innocent's houses and shops is completely wrong and unjustifiable, but not non-understandable. You of course have people hijacking these protests and race riots for their own personal gain, and these are morally unjustified minority that are directing their efforts to smashing up small businesses. When anger is directed at the people they see are fortunate and continue to oppress the significant 'minorities', then one can begin to understand why those, not motivated by greed and the want to cause destruction without reason, are targeting the government buildings, police cars and shop owners, they see that all these groups maintain the rotten status quo. Exactly the same thing happened in the 2011 London Race Riots.

 

Ferguson is so much more than Mike Brown now. It's about Trayvon Martin, Diana Showman, Joseph Kennings, fucking...Tamir Rice a 12 year old who police shot two seconds after pulling up in their squad car. Two. Fucking. Seconds.

 

I'm all for peace and diplomacy, I'm a quasi-pacifist for fuck sake but when diplomacy fails there's only one route of action left and that is what some of the Ferguson protesters are resulting to. Remember, Martin Luther King spoke out against violence and got shot in the fucking head.

Just wrong.  So much wrong.  Forensics and witness testimony proved most of your take on the event wrong.  Race had nothing to do with it.  And you have no proof to show otherwise.

 

Looting and rioting, destroying businesses whose only crime was being located near the police station is wrong.  Just wrong.  It is not understandable.  There's nothing to understand.


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#13 The Seldom Seen Kid

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Posted 27 November 2014 - 10:57 AM

Which witness testimonies? The guilty white people's? The fact I've seen so much on the internet at the moment making light of the racial prejudice by making racist jokes sickens me. (Not here...at the moment) Darren Wilson as affore mentioned by Gol is fucking scum and for anyone to think that the burning of a flag, a coloured piece of fucking cloth or even looting stores is in anyway near the importance of a racially driven murder, the loss of someone's life needs to get off their holier than thou high horse and get their priorities straight. I've seen so many tweets at the moment by racist white scum saying for burning a flag they should be shot but where is that vindictive trail of thought when it comes to the murder committed by Darren Wilson. To side with Wilson and to deny the racism occurring is monumentally ignorant. Ignoring racism and or disregarding it has become a new form of racism. However much you want to deny it.



#14 No-Danico

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Posted 27 November 2014 - 12:23 PM

The fact I've seen so much on the internet at the moment making light of the racial prejudice by making racist jokes sickens me. (Not here...at the moment)

 

Nahh. We don't do that. The closest we come to that is me saying Krys lives in Mexico island, or maybe saying Rob lives in Australia because all of the islands in the Indian ocean look the same.


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#15 Mister Sympa

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Posted 27 November 2014 - 04:53 PM

 Jewish people are still the largest target of hate crime in America.

BRB, burning some shit down.

 

Jesus titty-fucking Christ.


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#16 Big_Willie_Styles

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Posted 28 November 2014 - 12:18 AM

BRB, burning some shit down.

 

Jesus titty-fucking Christ.

It is a true statement. The sad part is how accepted anti-Semitism is on the academic level considering the treatment of Israel by American academics.

Which witness testimonies? The guilty white people's? The fact I've seen so much on the internet at the moment making light of the racial prejudice by making racist jokes sickens me. (Not here...at the moment) Darren Wilson as affore mentioned by Gol is fucking scum and for anyone to think that the burning of a flag, a coloured piece of fucking cloth or even looting stores is in anyway near the importance of a racially driven murder, the loss of someone's life needs to get off their holier than thou high horse and get their priorities straight. I've seen so many tweets at the moment by racist white scum saying for burning a flag they should be shot but where is that vindictive trail of thought when it comes to the murder committed by Darren Wilson. To side with Wilson and to deny the racism occurring is monumentally ignorant. Ignoring racism and or disregarding it has become a new form of racism. However much you want to deny it.

The onus is now on you to prove the racial element.  If you can't provide that, stop calling Wilson a racist.


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#17 The Seldom Seen Kid

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Posted 28 November 2014 - 11:47 AM

The onus is now on you to prove the racial element.  If you can't provide that, stop calling Wilson a racist.

Oh just stop defending him. Stop acting like there's no racism involved. Why defend a murderer over a young man who supposedly knicked some cigarillos. You'd need to be a special kind of stupid to think that Wilson is such a lovely man who just adores the black community. Whose side are the KKK on? Certainly not Brown's. Better get your pointy hat ready for tonight.

 

Also worth pointing out this link:http://tinyurl.com/q5mhn72 so that you can find the hate crime statistics on this FBI site and see that race related hate crime in the USA out of all is 48.3% where as religion is 19%. Also remembering that most of the relion related hate crime will be most likely targeted muslims, I'd like to know where the hell you got this idea that Jews are the biggest target of hate crime in America.



#18 Big_Willie_Styles

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Posted 28 November 2014 - 12:29 PM

Oh just stop defending him. Stop acting like there's no racism involved. Why defend a murderer over a young man who supposedly knicked some cigarillos. You'd need to be a special kind of stupid to think that Wilson is such a lovely man who just adores the black community. Whose side are the KKK on? Certainly not Brown's. Better get your pointy hat ready for tonight.

Self-defense, not murder.  Murder, by definition, is unjustified.

 

I don't like letting emotion rule my mind during a debate.  Without evidence, a racism charge is just BS, meant to stifle debate not encourage it.

 

Two young men are walking in the middle of a street in broad daylight on a street with a sidewalk.  A lone cop approaches the two men and tells them to get on the sidewalk (in an up for debate level of civility, depending on who you believe.)  The two men ignore the cop, possibly curse him out, and continue walking in the middle of the street.  The cop calls in the two men and describes Brown, including the detail about the small cigars in his hand.  The cop blocks the street (and asks for backup at this point I believe) and again tells the two men to get out of the street.  They ignore him again.  Wilson now tries to get out of the cop car and talk to the young men more directly.  Brown shuts the cop car door before Wilson can get out.  This happens either once or twice more.  Brown then leans inside the open cop car window.  Some yelling occurs.  Brown then punched Wilson twice in the face (that's called "assaulting a police officer" and is a serious crime.)  Wilson was going to arrest him for that no matter what.  It also seems Wilson and Brown then fought over the gun, which Wilson pulled once he felt his life was in danger (the aforementioned double face punch.)  Two to three shots fired by Wilson in the cop car, with Brown's hand so close to at least one of the shots that there were powder burns on his hand.  Brown started to flee, Wilson got out of the car to pursue.  Wilson pointed the gun and told Brown to stop.  Brown turned around, about 21 feet or so from Wilson, and then started charging towards Wilson.  Wilson then shot a few times and Brown continued moving forward, seemingly unfazed.  Wilson fired again with one of the shots this time killing Brown.  Brown ended up about six to eight feet from Wilson.  The backup then arrives shortly afterwards.

 

That's what the forensic evidence and credible witness statements paint as the scene.  Brown was not shot in the back.  His hands were not up in the "hands up, don't shoot" pose.

 

This was a sad event, but it seems self-defense is what went down.


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#19 The Seldom Seen Kid

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Posted 28 November 2014 - 01:01 PM

I'm sorry but I'm finding you hard to believe seeing as I disproved your previous matter of fact point about hate crime towards Jews.



#20 Calvary

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Posted 28 November 2014 - 01:10 PM

Ignoring the emotionally charged argument above, I'm just gonna throw in the point that there was no cross examination at the cop's trial. Literally none. How can it therefore be considered anything but a show trial?

 

We also see from the hospital reports that Darren Brown sustained no physical injuries and yet Brown stated he was punched in the face twice. He also compared Mike Brown to Hulk Hogan. Major discrepancy here.


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