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#1 GandalfsDaughter

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 10:15 AM

As I am a big fan of Harry Potter and I haven´t seen any topic related to this, I decided to create it...

I am reading the whole series for the second time and just felt curious about all of you guys..if you like it, if you don´t...

 

personally. I think that it will never exist such thing as HP...one of the biggest phenomenons of english literature (and movies...)

 

 

 

 


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#2 Affray

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 12:43 PM

I haven't found many people who didn't enjoy the books.

Some do not favour the movies very much, but such is the way of the world.

 

I don't lose my nut over Harry Potter, but I do have a profound appreciation for how it took the world by storm.


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#3 Silver_rose

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 04:59 PM

I loved reading Harry Potter as a teenager

I very much liked the first film

and the second one

Went downhill from there
When they got to the 6th it was like they were just flashing through scenes
I get they had not enough time because it's nearly a 3 hour film as is... But really... It was stupid.

 

But back to the books
Don't get me wrong, I love them
But everyone loves them
It's pretty much generic, mediocre writing.
and mediocre sells.
Doesn't really challenge the reader much.
That being said, I still want to stress that I find it a good read anyway.


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#4 No-Danico

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 06:20 PM

It's pretty much generic, mediocre writing.

and mediocre sells.

 

This is both sad and true. Mindless fun is great sometimes, but some alliteration and poetic verse is expected in my fantasy. I'm not looking for Shakespeare every time, but, come one. Aesthetics aren't just for painting and sculpting.  

 

Harry Potter was pretty good. Turned a lot of kids onto fantasy, but I dropped it into the mindless fun category.


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#5 Mister Sympa

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 05:47 AM

Wooooow. I was not expecting such unpopularity. I love the wizarding world and everything involved therein. I'm not quite a Potter encyclopedia, but I know what I'm talking about.

 

I find the writing--excuse me--enchanting. If I happen to come across some of her writing, I'll read it passingly, and before I know it, the passage is over and I want more.

 

The wold is completely absorbing. The way that magic is incorporated into the world is realistic, and the world is filled with people. So many books I find that there is The Good Guy, The Bad Guy, The Mindless Henchmen. Look at Draco. Look at the HELL he goes through from years 5-7. He spends his time terrified to death of Voldemort who is in his goddamn house, and he still has to put up with school shit. While Harry, Ron and Hermione are on the run hunting horcruxes, Draco's at Hogwarts watching his fellow students be tortured by the Carrows (who are a sick pair of siblings) and being expected to join in laughing. You know, Jason Isaacs has described Draco as "the real hero of the story," and upon closer inspection, I can totally see where he's coming from.

 

How is that not interesting?


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#6 Silver_rose

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 07:11 AM

Draco's at Hogwarts watching his fellow students be tortured by the Carrows (who are a sick pair of siblings) and being expected to join in laughing.

 

How... Is that being a hero?


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#7 Sayuri Mifune

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 07:58 AM

Wooooow. I was not expecting such unpopularity. I love the wizarding world and everything involved therein. I'm not quite a Potter encyclopedia, but I know what I'm talking about.

 

I find the writing--excuse me--enchanting. If I happen to come across some of her writing, I'll read it passingly, and before I know it, the passage is over and I want more.

 

The wold is completely absorbing. The way that magic is incorporated into the world is realistic, and the world is filled with people. So many books I find that there is The Good Guy, The Bad Guy, The Mindless Henchmen. Look at Draco. Look at the HELL he goes through from years 5-7. He spends his time terrified to death of Voldemort who is in his goddamn house, and he still has to put up with school shit. While Harry, Ron and Hermione are on the run hunting horcruxes, Draco's at Hogwarts watching his fellow students be tortured by the Carrows (who are a sick pair of siblings) and being expected to join in laughing. You know, Jason Isaacs has described Draco as "the real hero of the story," and upon closer inspection, I can totally see where he's coming from.

 

How is that not interesting?

Change some names, races, and the location and you have 95% of magic-based fantasy. It's generic and frankly, boring. It's a typical evolution story where the hero starts out as a lame-ass and learns to not be such a lame-ass, be mentored by an elder, defeats the bad guy and gets the girl. I could pick any random book off the fiction shelf at my local bookstore, and chances are I'll end up with a book that follows this format. 


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#8 GandalfsDaughter

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 10:32 AM

Wooooow. I was not expecting such unpopularity. I love the wizarding world and everything involved therein. I'm not quite a Potter encyclopedia, but I know what I'm talking about.

 

I find the writing--excuse me--enchanting. If I happen to come across some of her writing, I'll read it passingly, and before I know it, the passage is over and I want more.

 

The wold is completely absorbing. The way that magic is incorporated into the world is realistic, and the world is filled with people. So many books I find that there is The Good Guy, The Bad Guy, The Mindless Henchmen. Look at Draco. Look at the HELL he goes through from years 5-7. He spends his time terrified to death of Voldemort who is in his goddamn house, and he still has to put up with school shit. While Harry, Ron and Hermione are on the run hunting horcruxes, Draco's at Hogwarts watching his fellow students be tortured by the Carrows (who are a sick pair of siblings) and being expected to join in laughing. You know, Jason Isaacs has described Draco as "the real hero of the story," and upon closer inspection, I can totally see where he's coming from.

 

How is that not interesting?

 

Excuse me, sir, you are awesome.

 

Harry Potter is one of the most amazing things ever. It is so amazing that I can´t even describe it. I first read HP (the first book) when I was 10...only understood pretty much the magical stuff, watched the movies, though it was great. 

 Right now, I am 14, and started reading the whole series..I am reading these books in a much different perspective. It feels like there are no "good ones" or "bad ones" (except for Voldemort, but everyone that read the books can understand why he acts like he does xD), only "real" characters that sound like real people.

 Everyone knows that high school sucks..and when you are bullied for being a nerd everyday, that is when books like Harry Potter (and that whole universe by itself) can help you feeling really good.

 

When someone says "It's pretty much generic, mediocre writing. And mediocre sells.", all I can say is that you´re wrong. And when someone says "It's generic and frankly, boring" well, you are also wrong. 

 

Harry Potter sells because It shows to people that they can overcome their fears and It shows that there is still hope for everyone. It is one of the few books written that have a high quality writing combined with an amazing world. It has totally changed my life so I don´t think anyone has the right to say it is mediocre and boring. 

 

 

~Mischief Managed~


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#9 Sayuri Mifune

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 10:39 AM

 It has totally changed my life so I don´t think anyone has the right to say it is mediocre and boring. 

"I like it and my opinion is right, anyone who disagrees with me on my opinion is wrong."

 

Fixed that for you. Everybody has the right to dislike something based on its merits or lack thereof. If it goes against what you believe, that's perfectly justifiable. But to outright claim they have no right to their opinion on something that is FICTION is childish.


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#10 GandalfsDaughter

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 10:55 AM

"I like it and my opinion is right, anyone who disagrees with me on my opinion is wrong."

 

Fixed that for you. Everybody has the right to dislike something based on its merits or lack thereof. If it goes against what you believe, that's perfectly justifiable. But to outright claim they have no right to their opinion on something that is FICTION is childish.

 

You DO have the right to your opinion, and I haven´t said that my opinion was the right one. As you have the right to your opinion and said that it is "It's generic and frankly, boring. It's a typical evolution story where the hero starts out as a lame-ass and learns to not be such a lame-ass, be mentored by an elder, defeats the bad guy and gets the girl. I could pick any random book off the fiction shelf at my local bookstore, and chances are I'll end up with a book that follows this format." i am sure that I can say that you are wrong. That is my opinion.My opinion is that you are wrong. For sure there are hundreds of other people that agree with you and I am not saying that they don´t have the right to their opinion, I just said that i don´t think that anyone should insult other fandoms. I am sure that if I insulted your favourite fandom you would be standing in my position, defending your favourite fandom.

 

After all this, if you still think I am childish, ok then.


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#11 Sayuri Mifune

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 11:05 AM

You're not really getting the reading comprehension down >_> You said "I don´t think anyone has the right to say it is mediocre and boring." which is asserting that your opinion is correct and an opinion that goes against this is incorrect. Therefore yes, you did claim your opinion is the right one. To add to this, I wouldn't really care if you "insulted" my favourite fandom. If you did so without trying it I'd just consider you an idiot. If you tried it and didn't like it then meh, no skin off my nose. But you're getting really defensive over a differing viewpoint, which is what I do find childish. Harry Potter has a cult following, which is actually depressing as there are many literary geniuses out there who will be passed over in favour of this. Another downside to big fandoms is the obsessive fans. THIS IS GREAT AND IF YOU DON'T AGREE YOU'RE A HORRIBLE PERSON etc. Definitely not a good look.


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#12 No-Danico

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 11:22 AM

Link to the tropes page for the last book. (There's a page for each book, by the way) You see that? That means the books follow a formula. In general, that's how authors write. A good author will subvert this formula a few times, make things a little more interesting. Now, there's nothing wrong with a book/show/movie having a tropes page, they all do. THEY ALL DO. Fahrenheit 451, Ender's Game, Macbeth, The Hobbit, each have a page. And each of these books have what's called 'pure artistic merit.' The Hobbit was heavily based on Nordic mythology, yet, everyone loves it and never confuses the two.

 

You see that? That's called presenting an argument based on empirical facts. I didn't yell 'I hate it and everyone who does is stupid' which is what you basically did the first time.

 

Harry Potter was good. I really enjoyed it. But am I going to include it in my favorite fiction book list? Nope. Read The Name of the Wind or The First Law trilogy. Those are books I love that I consider artistically pleasing. Then try Jim Butcher's The Dresden Files. (It has a wizard named Harry in it) That's a book I love that I don't consider artistic so much. It's fun and well written, but a bit mindless.

 

Harry Potter was just another chain in a long list of wizard books. I love magical fantasy. Hell, that's what I do, write them. But I can distinguish between what sells because it's popular or resonates with people and what is true art. Look at all of the reality TV shows in America. People watch that pedantic drivel every night, and it is as lowbrow as it comes. If you want to go in for a cash-gram, you aim for the middle. You think Dawkins tries to sell to middle America? Not so much. I'm sure he wants to, but they're just not interested.

 

tl;dr Just because something makes money doesn't mean it's the greatest thing ever. Look at 50 shades, Twilight, 2 fast 2 furious, Jersey Shores, Honey Boo Boo, ect.  


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#13 GandalfsDaughter

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 11:31 AM

You're not really getting the reading comprehension down >_> You said "I don´t think anyone has the right to say it is mediocre and boring." which is asserting that your opinion is correct and an opinion that goes against this is incorrect. Therefore yes, you did claim your opinion is the right one. To add to this, I wouldn't really care if you "insulted" my favourite fandom. If you did so without trying it I'd just consider you an idiot. If you tried it and didn't like it then meh, no skin off my nose. But you're getting really defensive over a differing viewpoint, which is what I do find childish. Harry Potter has a cult following, which is actually depressing as there are many literary geniuses out there who will be passed over in favour of this. Another downside to big fandoms is the obsessive fans. THIS IS GREAT AND IF YOU DON'T AGREE YOU'RE A HORRIBLE PERSON etc. Definitely not a good look.

 

 


"Another downside to big fandoms is the obsessive fans" I believe that was a compliment.

 

The whole purpose of what I´ve written first was to explain why I love harry potter. My purpose wasn´t transforming this forum into a battle field.

Come on, I supose you are older than me and I think that the path this discussion is taking is not the right one, you probably agree on that.

 

I get it, you hate HP with your heart and soul and above all, you hate the people that like it. You are an awesome person. You won.


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#14 Affray

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 12:07 PM

"Another downside to big fandoms is the obsessive fans" I believe that was a compliment.

 

The whole purpose of what I´ve written first was to explain why I love harry potter. My purpose wasn´t transforming this forum into a battle field.

Come on, I supose you are older than me and I think that the path this discussion is taking is not the right one, you probably agree on that.

 

I get it, you hate HP with your heart and soul and above all, you hate the people that like it. You are an awesome person. You won.

The initial annoyance was you saying that you didn't think anyone had the right to say it was mediocre or boring.

Then being offended when that was pointed out as being silly.

 

Frustration happens when opinions clash, no big deal.

No one has to get all uppity and flustered.

Just because Harry Potter has had a deep influence on you personally does not mean everyone has to share that affection.

I know people that think To Kill A Mockingbird was revolutionary and a must read for every human being alive today.

I think it is boring drivel that can be summed up in a single paragraph about how racial and social judgement is bad.

 

Or Shakespeare, oh my god Shakespeare.

I loathe every moment I had to spend in high school reading what that guy wrote.

Was the storytelling good, sure, but only because it was all taken from other source material.

The dude invented a crazy amount of new words so he could better tell the stories, so high five there, but holy shit is he ever terribly overplayed.

Which goes to show that even if you take something that rocks people's world and force feed it go everyone and tell them that this is what is good, eventually those people are going to become annoyed with it. Then take a step back and think, "Well that isn't so great after all. Its ok I guess, but it's time has passed.".

 

Conflicting opinions happen, it is how we deal with them that defines us.


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#15 Sayuri Mifune

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 12:30 PM

"Another downside to big fandoms is the obsessive fans" I believe that was a compliment.

 

The whole purpose of what I´ve written first was to explain why I love harry potter. My purpose wasn´t transforming this forum into a battle field.

Come on, I supose you are older than me and I think that the path this discussion is taking is not the right one, you probably agree on that.

 

I get it, you hate HP with your heart and soul and above all, you hate the people that like it. You are an awesome person. You won.

If you're not going to take the time to read (and actually understand words) I'm not going to dignify that with a response lol


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#16 Silver_rose

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 01:57 PM

She's right

 

Now I'm gonna start off with this

http://cdn-www.i-am-...terstarwars.jpg

 

and I'm going to explain
If I recall, there are only 14 formats for unique, different stories.

Harry Potter easily falls within the typical scificition/fantasy genre

and because you can easily change a few words here and there, it's easy to spot just how mediocre it really is.

 

Like I said before, don't get me wrong, I love reading the books

I enjoy reading mediocre writing as I don't want my brain to be challenged all the time

It's the same reason for loving documentaries and then watching some complete drivel television show

 

I enjoy books that subvert the formula as well as the books that follow it to the letter.

 

 

Right now, I am 14


Ok not that I really want to create an argument based on your age, but I'm going to

 

Kid... You're a teenager.
You know incredibly little about what is considered a literary genius

Hell... I'm 22 and I'm still learning.

I suggest you gain a bigger prospective and read more, expand your horizons.
Because I'm telling you now and people who ARE older and WISER are telling you what you consider "high quality writing" falls within the mediocre and you are missing the fantastical and wonderful experience you can gain from reading something that lies within the lines of artistic creation. You will understand more and learn more than you ever could reading these books and it truely is an experience.

Don't be blinded by the mediocre, sure it's good have around occasionally. But if you consider it the best, then your mind never expands.


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#17 Mister Sympa

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 08:44 AM

Guys, can we not do fandom wars? "Your opion is wrong" is so... Wrong.


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#18 GandalfsDaughter

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 03:11 PM

http://cdn-www.i-am-...terstarwars.jpg

 

  It is the first time I read that....when analysed, both the stories have a lot in common, the same "format". I agree with what you said that it "easily falls within the typical scificition/fantasy genre" in a way, because it follows the same "formula", but people usually don´t notice that, as I am a big star wars fan and I never thought of these similarities. I started reading harry potter because of the fact that that whole world seems unique and Hogwarts is amazing. I also  read Lord of The Rings (and The Hobbit,The Silmarillion) because I felt interested in that world and in the story, of course. J.K Rowling´s work and Tolkien´s work cannot be compared, but different things appealed me in both of the stories.

 

 

 

 

Ok not that I really want to create an argument based on your age, but I'm going to

 

Kid... You're a teenager.

 

that´s what everybody else does when I say that I like Harry Potter. Just to "break" the stereotype, I am a huge fan of Tolkien, I´ve read from Lord Of The Rings, The Silmarillion, The Hobbit, to other of his not-so-known books like The Children of Húrin. I haven´t started reading these books because I was trying to spot some "high quality writting", I started reading those because I was simply in love with that world. I am also a big fan of George R.R.Martin.

 

"Don't be blinded by the mediocre, sure it's good have around occasionally. But if you consider it the best, then your mind never expands."

 

I don´t know exactly what attracted me about the Harry Potter books but I can surely tell you that I haven´t started reading those with no idea of what was "quality writting". I don´t consider those the best (I´ve probably let that idea pass because I was a bit exalted and I had the hope to find some big harry potter fans) , but they have a special place in my heart because they´ve helped me a lot. I totally understand what you´re trying to say, but above everything, "quality writting" or prestigious authors/ literary geniuses aren´t everything when it comes to me choosing a book.

I am not a complete literature geek (I never read shakespeare nor anything like that because it´s not usual in the schools around here-Portugal- to teach these books, just portuguese literature, which sucks, by the way.), but certainly a geek that loves sci-fy and fantasy :)


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#19 Silver_rose

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 06:40 PM

but people usually don´t notice that

 

People don't notice it because they aren't informed of it.
It should be something taught in school to encourage critical and abstract thinking.

But it's not, at least it wasn't in my schools.

I found out because my stepfather sent me link, and it was a huge slap in the face for me to wake up and realise nothing is new and that if we want to be creative, we need to take our own spin on what already exists.

 

 

that´s what everybody else does when I say that I like Harry Potter. Just to "break" the stereotype, I am a huge fan of Tolkien, I´ve read from Lord Of The Rings, The Silmarillion, The Hobbit, to other of his not-so-known books like The Children of Húrin.

 

The statement of you being a teenager wasn't on the fact that you like Harry Potter, many adults love Harry Potter. As I've stated myself, as much as I find it mediocre, I still love the story.

And as a teenager I was a huge fan of Tolkien myself, still am.

 

No, the statement was to break the notion of you knowing that you're right and everyone else is wrong.

To put it bluntly - you're a teenager and you know very little.

Look you have the right to your own opinion as everyone else does, you have the right to love Harry Potter like the rest of the world. But what I was trying to say was that you need to do more reading and devlop more of an understanding of literature before you go spouting words of "Well I'm right and you're wrong". As well as providing evidence that support your claim to be right, not just doing the typical "NO U" response and sticking your fingers in your ear going "lalalalalala".

 

You claim the Harry Potter stories are "one of the biggest phenomenons of english literature"
Now there have been opposing claims, and evidence put forth that it's not, even though it's been stated it's still a good story to read

It's up to you now to put forth evidence that supports your claim.

 

The burden of proof is on those that claim it to be true, not on those who question it.


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#20 The Robstar

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 03:17 AM

I was an avid Potterholic between 2001-2003 when I was a preteen. I loved the Philosophers Stone and Chamber of Secrets Movie when they came out.

 

Prompted to read all the book (5 of them at the time)

 

The Order of the Phoenix was the last book I read and funny enough that was also the last movie that I actually enjoyed :)


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