Gigabyte
Posted 17 April 2013 - 02:59 PM
Suffice to say, I'm pretty sure that 8-year-old didn't oppress anybody, or illegally occupy any countries.
Is it weird that I'm just... sick of countries? All of them? Cultures are great, and people are great, but the whole concept of a 'country' only ever seems to cause problems.
Terabyte
Posted 17 April 2013 - 09:30 PM
To say that America wanted to show its power is an incredibly brash statement. Historically, including through WWII, Japan followed a no-surrender code of honor where it was considered far more honorable to commit suicide than to surrender. (I'm sure you've heard of banzai and kamikaze)
To say that America wanted to show its power... I highly doubt that, and I really think you underestimate the burden that this put on Truman and his advisors.
it's essentially been proven that hiroshima was used as an experiment to discover the affects of a nuclear bomb on civilians, because up until that point, we had not had any experience with radiation so we didn't know how it would affect people.
Once the bombs went off, American soldiers occupied parts of Japan, they;d bring sick and injured affected by the bombs and observe the wounds and effects, not bothering with treatment, they also took research Japanese scientists where doing for trying to find treatments, and put it under lock and key.
The city of Hiroshima harbours a lot of ill feelings towards Americans to this day.
Kilobyte
Posted 18 April 2013 - 09:52 AM
To say that America wanted to show its power is an incredibly brash statement. Historically, including through WWII, Japan followed a no-surrender code of honor where it was considered far more honorable to commit suicide than to surrender. (I'm sure you've heard of banzai and kamikaze)
To say that America wanted to show its power... I highly doubt that, and I really think you underestimate the burden that this put on Truman and his advisors.
I'm not saying its true, I know that japan used no-surrender but I only questioned if it was worth that many innocent lives to end the war, which probably would have ended quite soon anyway. Thats just my thought of it. But of course they wanted to display what they are capable of to the japanese so they could surrender. America showed that if you don't give up we will show our full power, and they did. And at the same time showed the world what they could do, and which lead to the soviets starting to show what they could do and then we had the cold war. But thats just what I think.
Guest_ElatedOwl_*
Posted 18 April 2013 - 09:59 AM
it's essentially been proven that hiroshima was used as an experiment to discover the affects of a nuclear bomb on civilians, because up until that point, we had not had any experience with radiation so we didn't know how it would affect people.
Once the bombs went off, American soldiers occupied parts of Japan, they;d bring sick and injured affected by the bombs and observe the wounds and effects, not bothering with treatment, they also took research Japanese scientists where doing for trying to find treatments, and put it under lock and key.
The city of Hiroshima harbours a lot of ill feelings towards Americans to this day.
Source?
Conceptual
Posted 18 April 2013 - 10:59 AM
Suffice to say, I'm pretty sure that 8-year-old didn't oppress anybody, or illegally occupy any countries.
Is it weird that I'm just... sick of countries? All of them? Cultures are great, and people are great, but the whole concept of a 'country' only ever seems to cause problems.
You're in the same boat as me, I'm an anarchist so I think the whole idea of a country is redundant. I'd much rather live under a nameless collective or just a part of Earth. I'm not a nationalist by any stretch of the imagination but I can understand why people like the idea of a nation state, it's just I think they're redundant.
e: There is a possibility that America didn't have to use the bombs, Japan was looking for surrender by 1945 but under a way that would save them face. I'm calling bull shit on Americans forcing the Japanese into radiation pockets though because radiation was not understood to be dangerous until the late 1950s, hence why people in Texas used to go and stand under fallout clouds because they looked pretty.
Ask for my discord/Insta/Tumblr if you want.
Terabyte
Posted 18 April 2013 - 12:06 PM
it's essentially been proven that hiroshima was used as an experiment to discover the affects of a nuclear bomb on civilians, because up until that point, we had not had any experience with radiation so we didn't know how it would affect people.
Once the bombs went off, American soldiers occupied parts of Japan, they;d bring sick and injured affected by the bombs and observe the wounds and effects, not bothering with treatment, they also took research Japanese scientists where doing for trying to find treatments, and put it under lock and key.
The city of Hiroshima harbours a lot of ill feelings towards Americans to this day.
I'm with emo on this. Provide a source please because practically everything in that post makes me want to yell bullshit.
You're in the same boat as me, I'm an anarchist so I think the whole idea of a country is redundant. I'd much rather live under a nameless collective or just a part of Earth. I'm not a nationalist by any stretch of the imagination but I can understand why people like the idea of a nation state, it's just I think they're redundant.
e: There is a possibility that America didn't have to use the bombs, Japan was looking for surrender by 1945 but under a way that would save them face. I'm calling bull shit on Americans forcing the Japanese into radiation pockets though because radiation was not understood to be dangerous until the late 1950s, hence why people in Texas used to go and stand under fallout clouds because they looked pretty.
The alternative to the use of the bombs was an amphibious invasion of mainland Japan. The use of the bombs was to try to avoid spending the money and lives it would have taken otherwise.
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me-- and there was no one left to speak for me.
Conceptual
Posted 18 April 2013 - 12:55 PM
The problem is that the Emperor wanted surrender but his disenchanted armed forces wanted to continue fighting. I don't know what any alternate course of action could have done but it seems that given the circumstances, dropping the bomb was a 'good' method for ending the war abruptly.
Ask for my discord/Insta/Tumblr if you want.
Byte
Posted 18 April 2013 - 06:20 PM
No, I'm the same. Even after it happened I was able to go about my day unburdened because it didn't affect me personally. It doesn't make you terrible, just human. It saddens and disgusts me, and perhaps if you didn't feel at least that much you'd be terrible.
I don't care what country you're from, a death is a tragedy. More so when it's an innocent child.
America's and other countries participate in the destruction of their most innocent every day.
Ugh . . .
Gigabyte
Posted 18 April 2013 - 08:02 PM
America's and other countries participate in the destruction of their most innocent every day.
But you know what demographic does basically zero destroying of innocent lives?
Marathon runners.
I am as disgusted with America's foreign and domestic policies as anyone, but that's not what this is about. I do not believe this sort of attack is even slightly justified, and I don't much like the implication that it is.
Coffee Cat
Posted 19 April 2013 - 04:46 AM
So I woke up and it seems the world turned into an action movie? Absolutely terrifying. I hope they find the second suspect soon.
Conceptual
Posted 19 April 2013 - 07:50 AM
Fantastic, they're Chechen and Muslim. Cue McCarthyism MkII.
Ask for my discord/Insta/Tumblr if you want.
Deer Leader of the Goriest Revolution
Posted 19 April 2013 - 02:16 PM
it's essentially been proven that hiroshima was used as an experiment to discover the affects of a nuclear bomb on civilians, because up until that point, we had not had any experience with radiation so we didn't know how it would affect people.
Once the bombs went off, American soldiers occupied parts of Japan, they;d bring sick and injured affected by the bombs and observe the wounds and effects, not bothering with treatment, they also took research Japanese scientists where doing for trying to find treatments, and put it under lock and key.
The city of Hiroshima harbours a lot of ill feelings towards Americans to this day.
With everyone else, I want to see some source on this. We had a ton of people die of radiation poisoning during the construction of the bomb, and even before that. There was plenty of research done ahead of time, and we knew what would happen.
Byte
Byte
Posted 20 April 2013 - 12:35 AM
I think there has been a general misunderstanding of my comments . . .
So. The source of these two shithooks are in denial and are screaming that their offspring were "framed" and could never do such things? Seems they have taken on the mentality of a conspiracy theoriest.
Is there anything more useless than being a conspiracy theorist?
Ugh . . .
Conceptual
Posted 20 April 2013 - 04:57 AM
With everyone else, I want to see some source on this. We had a ton of people die of radiation poisoning during the construction of the bomb, and even before that. There was plenty of research done ahead of time, and we knew what would happen.
I would like to point out that the American government wasn't exactly sure what would have happened, they did tests in the 50s and 60s to find out, there's a famous clip of 'five men at ground zero', five men volunteered to stand under the mushroom cloud to see what would happen to them.
I think it would also be a good point to say that they all lived over sixty and two of the blokes (including the cameraman) are still alive today.
http://www.youtube.c...bed/BlE1BdOAfVc
The thing is, a lot of detonations were conducted in Texas in the 50s and because the scientists conducting the test didn't fully grasp the consequence of radiation poisoning, they used to let locals go and stand /right under/ the mushroom clouds. They also tested very near to villages. I tried to find a primary source on it but after about 15 minutes of searching I realised I can't for the life of me remember the exact title. Basically a guy and his wife went to watch the detonation of an A-Bomb and his wife's skin went red and peeled away, she became very ill and died five years later of advanced cancer or something.
That's why you have that sudden surge of public announcements videos in the late 50s and throughout the 60s and 70s, I think the government suddenly realised that the world had created weapons that were more dangerous then they ever realised in 1945.
Ask for my discord/Insta/Tumblr if you want.
Terabyte
Posted 21 April 2013 - 10:45 PM
Source?
I'm with emo on this. Provide a source please because practically everything in that post makes me want to yell bullshit.
The alternative to the use of the bombs was an amphibious invasion of mainland Japan. The use of the bombs was to try to avoid spending the money and lives it would have taken otherwise.
With everyone else, I want to see some source on this. We had a ton of people die of radiation poisoning during the construction of the bomb, and even before that. There was plenty of research done ahead of time, and we knew what would happen.
Right my bad for taking so long to reply, Work and stuff has kept me busy.
Youtube link:
Wikipedia page for the main doctor in the documentary:
http://en.wikipedia....i/Shuntaro_Hida
Another page about him:
http://www.wcpeace.org/Hida_bio.htm
BBC Article about the Documentary and the Doctor behind it:
http://en.wikipedia....of_World_War_II
